An interview with Tado (link) on the subject of Matter. Matthias Bösl, Head of Hardware Engineering, and Dominik Busching, Head of Product Management, describe their experiences with the new smart home standard. How the Munich-based manufacturer implements the technology in its “Tado X” series thermostats and what role the Thread wireless protocol plays in it.
Dies ist die Übersetzung eines deutschen Interviews. Zum Original bitte hier entlang.
Your new Tado X product line is compatible with the Matter standard. Do customers make use of this? Or do they simply use the Tado app with the Tado Bridge without integrating the whole thing into a Matter platform?
Dominik Busching: Matter does not yet play a major role in the smart homes of most of our customers. We see that around five percent of users operate Tado X on a third-party Thread Border Router, not with our own Bridge.
However, we don’t see the standard as an aim in itself. It has certain advantages – and we try to use them to offer our customers the best possible experience. We use the parts of the standard that are already fully developed.
“We use the parts from Matter that are already fully developed”
Is that also the reason for the restriction to certain Border Routers? You currently only recommend models from Apple.
Matthias Bösl: Our decision to limit the supported smart home controllers has to do with a Thread feature. It’s called NAT64 and enables Thread devices to connect to the internet. This feature is not yet integrated everywhere. Thread version 1.4 makes it mandatory and almost all major platforms have now announced that they will be compatible with Thread 1.4. We will then also expand our recommendation.
Incidentally, this was also a reason why we developed our own Thread Border Router with Bridge X, which also supports NAT64. Customers who buy a package with Bridge from us have no restrictions. They can use all the functions of the Tado app and don’t have to worry about these details.
Do the thermostats necessarily need this Internet access? In principle, Matter works locally without a connection to the outside world.
Matthias Bösl: We support local access via the Matter interface. The devices would therefore continue to work even without a connection to the Tado cloud. However, we also want to offer our customers added value beyond Matter. We are very good at bringing heaters, radiators, boilers and heat pumps together. The internet connectivity is helpful here. The system also works without it, but customers get more out of the products by having it.
Assuming someone wanted to do without the Tado-specific benefits and your app. Would it then be possible to use other Border Routers?
Matthias Bösl: Yes, as things stand today, the devices can be commissioned into the Google or Apple system. You can switch them on and off there or set a temperature and read out sensor data.
Dominik Busching: But of course that’s not what customers expect when they buy a Tado system. They don’t understand the distinction between Tado and Matter. That’s why, in addition to our own bridge, we recommend Border Routers from Apple, which have already implemented the NAT64 mentioned – in order to fulfill the value proposition of the products. When we developed and launched the devices, heating plans, for example, were not yet part of the Matter specifications.
They are now included in Matter 1.4. And theoretically, other Tado functions such as the automatic Away mode could also be taken over by Matter platforms in future. Does this jeopardize your business model?
Dominik Busching: We accept the challenge with confidence. Schedules are no longer something we differentiate ourselves on.
Matter is used where we believe it is good enough and saves resources in order to create added value elsewhere. But if we have the feeling that we can do something better ourselves, then we reserve the right to go our own way. This could also apply to schedules when it comes to special versions of this feature, such as dedicated timetables for vacations or UX optimizations or the option to copy such plans across rooms.
“Schedules are no longer something we differentiate ourselves on”
Our business model is not threatened by Matter because we no longer see Tado as a silo application for heating, but are developing into a central player for home energy management. We want to connect the various vertical applications with each other and it can even be helpful if the Matter standard covers the simpler things.
Before we get straight to energy management, one more question on the radio protocol Thread: Have you ever regretted relying on it?
Matthias Bösl: To start with – no, we never got that far. But of course there are low points when you realize that it’s a lot more work than you thought and that new technologies also create new customer problems. Basically, we are very positive about the whole thing. We developed a great deal ourselves for our V3+ generation. So we know how much effort it takes to manage the security mechanisms and a platform from scratch ourselves – or even just to ensure that the wireless protocols work properly.
In the past, a solid 30 percent of our development team was occupied with connectivity and the platform alone. The open source concept of Matter and Thread plus standardization ensures that we can concentrate better on things that offer our customers real added value. A clear advantage, even if there are still a few obstacles at the moment. We can see that the CSA is creating traction and that the right things are being worked on.
“We can see that the CSA is creating traction”
Dominik Busching : It was also to be expected that a standard like this would take some time to mature and establish itself. We always expected that our customers would continue to buy starter kits from Tado for the time being rather than being ready or willing to set up their HomePod or Amazon Echo straight away.
These starter kits also include the Bridge X as a Border Router. How open is it with regard to Matter platforms? Can I use data from the Tado system in Apple Home, Google Home and other Matter-compatible solutions? As an automation trigger, for example?
Matthias Bösl: Yes, we pass on humidity and temperature values from our thermostats via Matter. However, the data is displayed differently by the various platforms. The Bridge X is a completely transparent Thread Border Router that can also be used with devices from other brands and in the various ecosystems. Not just with our own thermostats and sensors. However, there is one small limitation: you have to use the Tado app to set it up because the Matter specification 1.4, which includes Thread Border Router as a profile, did not yet exist at the time of development.
What about compatibility with heating systems? You have programmed interfaces for many heat generators for the V3+ system. Some of these are no longer supported by Tado X. Why is that?
Dominik Busching: At the end of the day, Tado X is compatible with more heating systems because it now also supports heat pumps. And we are investing a lot of development capacity to cover more manufacturers. In terms of all the solutions, Tado has therefore become more compatible.
However, if you move into the niche of gas boilers – currently still a large niche – then you are right. We will continue to support the widely used OpenTherm market standard in the future, but have dispensed with support for other digital interfaces. There are many manufacturer-specific interfaces, but they only make up around five to ten percent of our installed base. At the same time, they are responsible for around 50 to 60 percent of the complexity.
“We support OpenTherm and have dispensed with support for other digital interfaces”
As our development capacities are finite, we have prioritized and focused on making the product better for 90 to 95 percent of our customer base – in other words, for those whose boiler is controlled via a relay or OpenTherm interface. It is also possible for others to connect to Tado X, using the relay interface or a transition module that translates the individual language into OpenTherm. And theoretically, you could also control a heating system without modulating the heat generator using only thermostats …
… which would often be much less intelligent and also not as efficient as we know it from Tado.
Dominik Busching: That’s true. But we continue to support the V3+ generation devices, so nobody with an older gas boiler has to switch to Tado X.
Matter 1.4 includes heat pumps as a product group. But no one is using these specifications yet. And Tado has to make individual adjustments for partners like Panasonic again. Is history repeating itself?
Dominik Busching : The development is difficult to predict at the moment. We can see that the first manufacturers are addressing the topic, but the market is divided. Some see Matter as an opportunity, others see it more as a competitive risk. But we can’t wait forever. That’s why we’ve developed our heat pump optimizer, which integrates such devices into the Tado ecosystem. And we are continuing to expand its compatibility.
“Some see Matter as an opportunity, others see it more as a competitive risk”
Matthias Bösl: Ultimately, it’s about offering the customer added value. Whether through in-house development or Matter is of secondary importance. We want to bring flexible energy tariffs to the heat pumps and make the system smarter overall. Whether the Matter specifications can offer this added value remains to be seen. That is why we are initially focussing on building the best possible product for the underlying challenge.
We are good at understanding how customers use their energy. Especially in the heating sector, because we have been doing this for so long. Heating systems are complex and often very individually combined. Mastering this complexity is our expertise. If this in-depth expertise can ultimately be combined with Matter ‘s customer friendliness in a meaningful way, we are naturally open to this.
Couldn’t Matter help with this? With all the product categories – from the SmartPlug to the fridge to the washing machine? In future, they should all be able to be controlled via Matter’s energy management system.
Matthias Bösl: Compared to domestic heating or an electric car, these are all small energy consumers. We see much more potential for savings with larger comsumers such as heat pumps. Underfloor heating, for example, can be used to store heat and thus take advantage of flexible energy tariffs. Refrigerators, on the other hand, are not flexible because they always have to be running. So there is less potential for savings in this area.
Dominik Busching: Televisions, fridges and washing machines may save another 15 percent in a household that has all the other assets. That puts them in the “also ran” category in terms of savings.
Do you see a danger that the big Matter platforms from Apple to SmartThings will virtually usurp this energy management in the smart home and radically simplify it with the help of AI?
Dominik Busching: I think it’s a chicken and egg situation. The big players are certainly working on it and will make a lot of progress in the next few years. But because we are a European champion in the heating segment and really understand our business very well, we believe we will be able to offer greater added value for a long time to come. And by added value I mean very specific cost savings for customers.
The European market is very fragmented and complex. This poses a challenge for Google, Apple and the like, which they cannot solve overnight. And AI will only help them to a limited extent.
“The European market poses a challenge for Google, Apple and the like”
I don’t want to sound like the car manufacturer who says that e-mobility will never catch on and then, bang, it blows up in your face. But I think the companies are looking at where they can create added value for 80 or 90 per cent of users with their solution and are concentrating on that. Europe, with its many countries and special features, is very complex and therefore not particularly attractive for the big players.
Mr Bösl and Mr Busching, thank you very much for this interview.
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